This is the final segment from my chat with Max. Enjoy and feel free to direct any more questions this way. I may just have to talk to John about CF Football soon…

Can you give us some insight into Crossfit Football?
It takes the idea of Crossfit and takes it to a heavier domain. It is a different modality and can work for many more things. Like i was saying about the energy systems and working strength etc. It is kind of specific but there is definitely going to be spill over to other disciplines,
It takes Crossfit into the multi planer dimension, i like turning and twisting. John(Welbourn) likes the change of directions. We will not have different workouts for different positions. Its like the CF games in that i need to do the same stuff as you but then i have my strengths.
It will be periodized for the year with pre and post season stuff.
Rip is helping out with the starting strength.

The certification will have alot of programming and alot of hard work. We have some good criteria for coaching as well. I see it opening the door for the old school programs. We pulled it into Cal St Fullerton and it worked.
Alot of coaches are scared of rhabdo but its like complaining about your sciatica. Nobody really even knows what it is or if they have it.

If it doesn’t have a clean, its not a workout.

Reading List
Journals:
Crosfit Journal
Milo (number one strength journal in the world)
NSCA scientific research. It is like the sunday funnies but they have some cool shit sometimes. power etc…
Diet:
Zone
Good Calories Bad Calories
The Makers Diet
Mediteranean Diet
Paleo diet

Training:
Russian, Bulgarian manuals translated
High Power Plyometrics (any books on plyo)
Training for Speed Agility and Quickness. Dr. Brown
Weightlifting Encyclopedia
Prescription for Natural Cures BalchMD

The more you can read the better, especially the stuff you disagree with so you can argue it better.

Holy Crap! There is some amazing information in this section. If any of this breeds new questions please post them here and i will either get back in touch with Max or he might answer them right here. Pass this along to your friends, its like gold for trainers!

Ok, enough about Max the man, tell me about Max the genius… What goes through your head when you are programming?

There is a periodization depending on specificity for the o-lifting and CFgames wod. Depending on the season. Right now the o-lifters are training for collegiate nationals.

For the games there is a bit of tapering and you have to treat it like a fighter. They still spar going into competition to keep their face tough. Crossfitters need the same exposure.
I like training the energy pathways. short for explosive, medium squatting, deadlifting and then some kind of metcon.

I like heavy loading and the overload principle.
You see it from the people that walked the wagon trail. I imagine the first 30-90 days were terrible then something happened and they adapted. Then the mountains came up and they were able to continue to travel. Something happened to allow them to adapt.
You have to understand there is trouble when you run the car in red all the time.
Like a pullup program where you build the volume weekly. The overload principle works.
It helps when programming to determine an overall goal but it can change as time progresses.
I come from the old school of crossfit where we did 3 on 1 off where you use one named wod per section then something highly skilled followed by some o-lifting. That way you have alot of named wods and constant evaluation. We like using 5×3’s before hand then doing a name brand wod.
I like 0-lifting 2-3 times a week. You can still get conditioning with the lifts.
Using 8×2 on the minute is awesome.
I like random intervals like 100 as fast as possible as well as sprint intervals.
When i look at programs i try to explain that it has to come down to the overall agenda and you have to understand that. There has to be a quantitative value to work towards.
Everyday you leave CF with a stamp, you accomplished something. Thats what i really like about crossfit and the community it breeds.

What WOD do you do?
I do the olifting wod as well as some other stupid stuff. I like to watch what is missing and see what needs to be supplemented. I try to go for some kind of year long overview.

Give me a little more about the warm ups you prescribe.
I like gymnastics warm up combined with the bar warm up.
I have an agenda going into the warm up.
For example nobody could do double unders so we stole from buddy lee and sure as shit 3 months later people were doing double unders.
Nothing is better than seeing a grown person get mad at the jump rope and look like they want to cry. Throwing the rope and cursing.
The warm up is a good way to stay focused on your skills.
I am going to bring back active warms for our CF wods. I like movement and using different things in the warm up.

Tell me a little about what is going on down there at Balboa.
In the newport area you get alot of people that like the one on one but i think the group works better.
Nobody is competitive till you’re losing. (that should be on a t-shirt)
Especially the high level athletes like the one on one attention but i also noticed that a group environment makes you work harder.
We are doing 2 weeks where we are doing just skill stuff.
They don’t realize all i have for them is 9 (Actually 21) exercises and i give them to you all the time but in different ways.
All of my clients are my kids and i don’t like to leave them. I like to be a part of everything they do. It bums me out when they get stuff and i wasn’t there to see it.

I think the industry misses the point that in the gym it is alot freer environment where you have to be there for the individuals.
I think a true gym is like a resort where we cater to your needs and I think people need individual attention.
I see us having 150-200 clients in our new space. I won’t allow classes to get over 8 people or i will have 2 or three coaches depending on the numbers in class. Its like babysitting. These people need the care i have for them.
I know more about my clients than they know about me. You have to remember you are asking someone to change their life.

I have started doing more assessment stuff in the beginning to build value. I like having baseline assessment over a broad range ex (jackie, max deadlift). This way at least they have a way of testing in the future.

We are building this type of assessment for CF football. maybe a 2 week assessment.
I think everyone should have an estimated goal as the beginning of the program…

I am going to break this section here and give you the last part about CF Football tomorrow as well as Max’s suggested reading list.

Interested in talking about any or this stuff? Come to Crossfit South Brooklyn for my trainer development seminar.

Max is one of the few people that i would trust to coach me. I think he gets it. He is also an amazing person and constantly in pursuit of knowledge. I feel obligated to introduce him to you so you know a little bit more about him and why he got into fitness. This is Part one of a two part series. Part two is juicy so you won’t want to miss it.

What is your Fitness Background?
My fitness life started at 8 years old. I was strong for a little kid. My brother was 8 years older and did body weight functional stuff as well as some of the body building stuff in the garage. My Brother wanted to see how strong i was so I benched 75 pounds and got a hernia. I always played sports but soccer was my main sport.

In college i had a coach that made us do dumbbell thrusters, db cleans, manmakers etc.
If you weren’t working hard enough on the field you got pulled back to the weights.

After college i ran into some trouble so i came home and left it behind.
I started waiting tables and slipped and fell and tore my miniscus. They didn’t want to do surgery so i got a new doctor in LA.
It took 8 months to get the surgery and i became fat and out of shape ( i never had an issue with being fit). That is where i got into fitness. I got into it while i was rehabbing.
I was coaching soccer and was disgusted with being fat.
I wanted to be large so i started body building. I started to like the weights and really did high rep non functional movements but i really liked lifting heavy.
I started doing photo shoots and semi pro stuff.

I wanted to coach the kids the way i was coached.
I remember one day i was helping a buddy move. We were moving a couch andI had to put it down and decided i was out of shape. Even though i was doing two workouts a day, and 45 minutes of cardio.

I started talking to Skip a trainer at my gym and he said the olympic lifts will make you athletic.
I got into kettlebells and a little o lifting.
The first time i talked to coach b i was having trouble with my wrists, he told me to lose my 20 inch arms so i quit doing curls, and high rep pullups.

Between 2001-2002 i really got into crossfit.
The first workout i did at Santa Cruz. It was Frellen 8 rounds 800m run 15 thrusters, 15 pullups. Josh Everett and Keisha both did it with me. They finished well before me, although i kept up for the first couple rounds. I guess i took too long cause they started the seminar while i was still working out.
Keisha did pretty well. I have noticed 800 meterist adapt pretty well to crossfit once the muscle endurance catches up.

What pulled you towards the olympic lifts?
I really like the lifts and the athletics required for it.
We talked about the fight or Flight and the panic that sets in before cindy or murph. With workouts like this the clock doesn’t stop and the workout will be completed at some point.
With weights it either moves or it doesn’t. I like the fear that goes along with it.
Olympic lifting is more prestige and thats what got me. They are a group of Ronins. They are the outcasts and a dying breed. The idea of o-lifting is transfer of force. Everything we do is transfer of force. There is nothing more primal than throwing weight over head.

Tell us about your lifting career.
I qualified for nationals right out of the gate and finished 13 out of 13. The next year i was 8, then 5th.
For Bejing 2008 they changed the qualifications. One year out you have to get into the drug testing program. In every other sport they enroll you. In weightlifting they don’t enroll you. Nobody knew about the requirements. I was a little pissed cause i worked pretty hard. I felt bad for myself but then i think about Casey Burgener and what he went through was hard.
The focus needs to be shifted to the younger generations and we need to develop lifters younger. High school and middle school programs need to be developed like they do in the eastern block and China.

Why did you really get into training others?
As a coach i have been looking at the requirements of specific sports and geared training for that.
I coached at fullerton and irvine where i coached the golf team.
The real reason i trained was because i needed something to do between my own training.

What do you do and what do you recommend for warming up?
I used to do all the dynamic stuff and have bounced around quite a bit.
Now i do a bar warm up then get straight into 60-70%.
I like putting it on the athlete for warm up.

Ok, here is the deal… I talked to max last night for almost 2 hours and have some really cool stuff. The only downside is that as i was looking at it this morning, i found that it is a mess. Lots of short hand that i need to sort through. I am also going to break it into sections so i don’t have an epic 3 page post. Please be patient and i will try to get part one up today.
Thanks.
Dutch

As a trainer and likely an affiliate owner you are your clients authority on fitness and possibly nutrition. If your clients are anything like mine were, you will also be their orthopedist, physical therapist, and psychologist.
My question for you is who do you go to for expertise? Who is the person you go to as an authority in different subjects?

On another note: If you have questions for max, get them posted today or tomorrow morning. I will be on a plane tomorrow afternoon and not get back to the blog until next week. Hopefully i will get the interview posted early next week. I apologize in advance for the delay in posting.
My best Friend is graduating from Tufts this weekend so there should be some good partying!!

I will be interviewing Max Mormont soon so get me your questions. If you have already posted some (dave) post them again here so they are all in the same place.

I had an interesting conversation with Spencer Nix of Crossfit Dallas Central today. I went to his place to workout and as we were talking about possible workouts GHD situps came up. At Spencer’s request i will share with you my thoughts.

First, I want you to think back to the last time you did more than 30 GHD situps. Then try to remember how it felt to get out of bed the next day, and the next and the next. For me it may even take another day before i feel 100%. This is why i don’t do GHD situps. My reasons go past just being in pain although that is a huge factor in why i don’t do them. In my experience, doing them consistently has not improved my snatch, overhead squat, deadlift or fran time. They have however kept me from training for up to a week at a time. Now here is my question for you. Even if they are some kind of miracle midline strengthening movement the fact that i lost 4 good days of training negates that totally. Sometimes you have to think “is the athletic capacity gained from a movement or workout worth the time off you will have to take?”

Let me offer some additional things that go along the same line.
Bottom to bottom tabata squats - Last time i did them i pr’d with 22 but could barely walk for 4 days. The pain was deep and lasted well into the next week. I know for a fact that it kept me from training for at least 3 days.

Ripping your hands on pullups/muscle ups - In life and Crossfit, your hands are involved in just about everything you do. I solute the fact that you got 3 more pullups than you did last time or knocked 6 seconds off your fran time because you refused to let go of the bar but at what cost? It takes at least 2 weeks for your hands to fully recover and in that time do you ever get a good workout in? How long does it take to get back your confidence on the pullup bar? ( i have tons of thoughts on your hands and pullups that i will have to get into later)

1 pullup on the first minute, 2 pullups on the second minute, 3 pullups…- this workout not only has the potential of destroying your hands ( i am guilty for sure) but taking away the ability to to straighten your arms for at least 4 days usually more. Not to mention the difficulty you have holding a pen and writing your name.

JT- Push, Push, Push until complete muscle failure. Good luck doing anything with your arms for the next week.

High rep, Heavy deadlifts- for me this breaks me off for at least a week. I end up walking like an old man and complain everytime i have to bend over or stand up. I also think they are kind of dangerous and have hurt my back twice doing them.

Soreness is good. Don’t be afraid to work hard and maybe even occasionally do the movements or workouts above but understand that you will always get more out of 4 days of training than you ever will out of 1 hard day.

What are the movements/workouts that destroy you?

The longer you train people the more the bad parts of training come out. I don’t know if bad is the right word for this, maybe think of it as the less desireable side of training. I am talking about things like waking up at 5:30am everyday or staying up till midnight posting to your blog. We all love training but there are some negative parts that we shouldn’t ignore.
What do you hate about training people? Go ahead get it all off your chest! (no names please)

Dave Werner of Level 4 Crossfit Seattle is one of the original Crossfit affiliates (in fact the first). He is passionate and you can see it in his work. Whether he is teaching the basics or training a games contender (Nadia) you can see his excitement and feel his knowledge. It was a pleasure getting the chance to hang out with him and pick his brain. We could have talked all day so let me know if you have any further questions for him.

Enjoy,

Dutch

The first question came from Justin. The rest are my ramblings.

Subject: Athletic Skill Level Charts.
Their development and use as a tool to specify measurable progress toward GPP.
I have found the skill level chart extremely useful! There is one item on this chart giving me particular trouble - the 45 reps of .5 BW Thrusters on the intermediate skill level, wow!, that is a monster set for an intermediate.

Regarding the 45 .5 Bw thrusters in an unbroken set - maybe You and Dave could comment on if others find that one tough or if I have discovered a weak link in my GPP.

This is the first place where skill is important to accomplish the movement. Most people don’t do thrusters properly. They have a bad rack position and poor hip drive.
I could have done something similar with SDHP. It takes a little bit of work but once you devote time to it you should get it.
For most people that is less than what is required for fran.

What motivated the development of the Skill Chart?

The skill chart came from my experience with people not being ready for more complex movements. They didn’t realize they needed the skills to accomplish these movements.
It is a tool to help people identify their weaknesses and remind people to attack things they aren’t as good at.

It allows people to find weaknesses in correct order and a way to not get hung up in their comfort zone. Lastly it is a motivational tool.

I noticed a bit of strength work before todays WOD. What is up with that?

We noticed a long time ago that people that are stronger take to crossfit quicker than the weak. We have tried different programs such as dedicated strength for a couple months and found we moved back as far as we moved forward.
I also like heavy metcons especially in conjunction with gymnastics movement.

How do you program for the gym?

We allow each individual trainer to program and recently started having weekly meeting and plan weekly programming. It is a way to get organized with strength training. Now we have a regular 7 day rotation with 6 days of strength work. the 7th day is a longer metcon. We use the slow lifts (dead, press, squat, pullup, dips) If you are strong with these you are strong.

What does a typical class look like?

Typical will be warm up, skill, strength, workout vary between short medium and long but we favor shorter metcon with posibly some skill work afterwards.

What is the demographic of your clientele?

25-45 middle aged professionals. 60% women with no strength training background. The big majority had no exposure to hard workouts. It is not a young aggressive population.
We tend towards the less aggressive approach and err on the side of caution.
Its no accident that we have this crowd.

I hear you have some pretty cool programs going here. What are they?

rehab programs
Scott has gotten really good at helping people get past twisted muscles and i am good at rehabbing the back. We each have specialties. for example kb work or o lifting.
We use barbell warmups to teach skills.

It is interesting to see your new space. I never saw the old one but heard it was twice the size as your current box. What were you thinking?

The old building should have been condemmed and flooded frequently.
I moved to get away from the city and because of market value had to take a smaller space. I realized the commute was a big deal. We can reasonably handle up to 400 clients and plan on having that by the end of the year.
We never had drive by traffic and now we get 1-4 people wander in each week. It happened twice while i was in the gym.

Is it just you and Scott running everything?

We are apprenticing a third full timer and expect to have that by the end of the year.
I am planning on moving into a bigger warehouse and want to buy the next building. i want 8-10000 and want 5000 dedicated tumbling with kids classes and adult gymnastics. I am doing some kids camps but i am limited with space for the after school stuff.
I want 4-5000 sq ft of CF space with nothing attached to the floor with equal space for gymnastics.

How many classes a week do you run?

32 classes a week. we fill time where there is a demand. as people have more choice they spread out. We have a couple classes that are simultanious. The cancer survivor class by Fran is run at the same time as another one.
We have 40 classes with an average of 65 to 70 people per day.
6 am 14 people
7 am 13 people
9 am 9 people
noon 5 People
4 pm6
5 pm11
6 pm18
7 pm7

saturday is 5 classes in the am with some specialty classes.

Any comments on Pricing and what you do?

The value of what we do in general is teaching people how to move, anything straying from that puts us in competition with 24 hour fitness spin class.
We are very picky about proper movements that is a service that is not offered anywhere. and that is where we offer value. I think affiliates would do better if they focused on training the movements.
People need to be comfortable charging what they are worth. Good training is expensive and people need to realize that.
We used to charge $75 an hour for Personal training now Scott and I charge $85 and our newer trainers still charge $75. In seattle 85 is a good number for good training.
$150 a month for group training, but we will be reevaluating that soon.
It holds us accountably by charging 75-85.

Do you ever cut deals?

When you allow yourself to be talked down its like saying yea my services aren’t really worth it.

Where do you get all these people from?

Almost everyone has heard about Crossfit from friends and family.
A number of people have come from other affiliates because they haven’t been getting good training.

How do you ensure everyone gets great training?

We have developed an in house training of trainers and
originally (just like HQ used to do it) it involved a test with a discussion at the end to make sure everyone was in line.
Level two would be the training of participants.
level three would be the training of trainers.
Trainers should take responsibility for their own training.
I want to start inviting outside trainers to strengthen the regional community.
We like to invite local affiliates into the gym so we can learn from each other.

Thank You very much Dave.